Introduction
Great Depression II is a name commonly applied to a period of economic turmoil centered in the United States, of disputed causes, severity and length. The term has most commonly been used in reference to future economic events, which many people have predicted will worsen.
The term Great Depression 2 was used at least as early as May 6, 2008 (Richard, Great Depression 2 Is At Hand, The Resourceful Bear Blog). Great Depression II was used by the media and blogs with increasing frequency during and after the second weekend of September 2008, which some people regard as the beginning of a second Great Depression. However, many people have consistently insisted that the economic situation would never develop into a full blown depression. Most news sources maintain that, even if it does develop into a depression, it could never be as bad as the original Great Depression.
Using the term loosely, Great Depression II can refer to economic problems that began some time after World War II, particularly during the Reagan administration, and are popularly blamed on deregulation, [ADD]. However, the term is more popularly reserved for George W. Bush's administration, which is characterized by extraordinary corruption and turmoil, with the economy suffering particularly devastating blows in the form of the 9/11 terrorist attacks and a subsequent housing crisis which came to a head on September 15, 2008 ("Black Tuesday").
Understanding this economic event can be very difficult due to the complexity of economics, a host of other increasingly complex related issues, government corruption and secrecy and propaganda. However, authorities and observers are in general agreement that the U.S. economic situation in the latter half of 2008 is worse than any other period in U.S. history save the original Great Depression.
Causes
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How Bad Could it Get?
Due to the complexity of economics, government corruption and secrecy and a number of similarly volatile related issues, it's virtually impossible to predict the course of Great Depression II with any accuracy. Anyone can see that things are getting worse, but no one knows how much worse it will get or how long it will last.
Throughout George W. Bush's administration, the media and many private citizens alike have labeled people who predict an economic catastrophe doomsdayers, in what appears to some to be a propaganda campaign designed, in part, to shield Bush from criticism. Some people point to "firewalls" created in response to the Great Depression that will theoretically prevent a subsequent economic disaster of that magnitude. Others simply profess a faith in the resiliency of the U.S. economy and the strength of the American people. It is also popularly believed that other nations will help prop up the U.S. economy, on which virtually the entire world depends.
In fact, the belief that another global depression equal to or exceeding the Great Depression in severity could simply never happen is propaganda at best, delusional at worst. History has a habit of repeating itself, a fact borne out by "the war to end all wars," which never lived up to its nickname.
Listed below are ten reasons a second great depression could be worse than the original. Collectively, they suggest the possibility of an economic perfect storm.
1. Population
Compare the United States' population figures for 1930, 1940 and 2000:
1930 - 122,775,046
1940 - 131,669,275
2000 - 281,421,906
The population more than doubled between 1940 and 2000. It reached 300 million in 2006 and is still growing. The 2006 population of California alone was 36,457,549, more than a quarter of the national population in 1940.
In other words, the government will have to care for more than twice as many people as it did during the Great Depression.
2. Farmers vs Urban Cowboys
The United States was still a largely agricultural nation in the 1930's. Thus, many people were partially self-sufficient during the Great Depression. [Get statistics; mention Dust Bowl]
A continuing exodus of farmers to cities has helped transform the U.S. into a nation with millions of people crowded into sprawling cities and megalopolises. At the same time, wild game has become more scarce. In the event of a major economic collapse, a higher percentage of people would be dependent on government welfare.
3. Downward Spiral
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4. More Complex Issues
The world has become a far more complex place than it was during the Great Depression. Nuclear weapons, the Internet and globalization didn't even exist then, and people had no knowledge of things like ozone holes and global warming.
The 9/11 terrorist attacks - whether perpetrated by Islamic terrorists or corporate operatives - are a reminder of how vulnerable the economy is to terrorism, technology run amok or government intrigue.
5. Oil
Fossil fuels have become the United States' Achilles heel. As demand for gas and oil increases, the global supply is popularly believed to be decreasing. Oil is certainly becoming more difficult to extract as the more accessible reserves are exploited.
Thus, the United States' economy is dependent on foreign oil suppliers. The top four importers (to the U.S.) are Canada, Saudi Arabia, Mexico and Venezuela, each supplying over one million barrels a day. Iraq ranks sixth in importance. Saudi Arabia and Iraq, of course, are located in the troubled Middle East. Many people question whether the U.S. can trust Saudi Arabia, which is an immensely powerful nation - one that exerts a lot of control over the U.S. economy and political system.
Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez has waged war against foreign corporations that have long exploited his country. As a result, the U.S. is now paying higher prices for Venezuelan crude. Chavez has also used oil as a weapon, threatening to cut off supplies if the U.S. attacks Venezuela.
Mexico is essentially a U.S. puppet state, but it has clearly been influenced by the Latin American socialist revolution; the last presidential election was very close, and many people predict that Mexico's next president will be a leftist, similar to the leaders that have risen throughout South America. Such a leader could well follow Venezuela's lead in making foreign corporations pay a fair price for its petroleum resources.
In the meantime, the U.S. has been antagonizing Iran, another major oil exporter - and a nation that largely controls the Straits of Hormuz, though which tankers carrying Middle Eastern oil pass.
6. War Economy?
World War II is commonly cited as a major factor in helping the U.S. recover from the Great Depression.The demand for war material gave the ecnonomy an enormous boost, paving the way for an unparalleled post-war boom.
Thus, some people have argued that another war could rescue us from a second depression. Conspiracy theorists might even speculate that the corporate interests who gave us a global war against terror want to ruin the economy partly as an excuse to expand their war. But there are several problems with this theory.
Apart from the moral arguments against waging war for economic gain, the United States is already bogged down in two wars, in Iraq and Afghanistan. In fact, those wars are frequently cited as major contributing factors to the United States' economic malaise. To understand why, just keep in mind that the military is now largely privatized. Corrupt corporations are making a killing off of war, with most of the profits funneled into the pockets of top executives.
A third war could be devastating. The military is already strained from its occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan. Reinstating the draft would usher in new problems. International anger at the United States could also increase if it got involved in yet another war. In addition, a number of powerful nations are poised to ally with virtually any nation the U.S. decides to attack. Witness the military alliance between Russia and Venezuela.
7. Corruption
Government corruption is frequently cited as a major contributing factor to the Great Depression. [VERIFY] Yet the government has also been credited with establishing programs and institutions that helped the nation recover.
The current U.S. government is widely characterized as corrupt and incompetent, even dysfunctional. Witness the federal response to Hurricane Katrina. If the government can't provide adequate assistance for New Orleans, how can it take care of an entire nation during an economic blowout?
To put it in perspective, natural disasters will continue to occur during times of economic woes. If another hurricane struck New Orleans or another major city during a depression, how might a government that's already grappling with myriad economic problems react?
8. Disaster Capitalism
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9. Dumbed Down Public
The socialist movement was a powerful political force in the late 19th and early 20th century, playing a powerful role in shaping today's economy. The Socialist Party of America became a minor political movement after 1920.
Today, there are just two viable political parties, Republican and Democratic, both of them very corrupt. In fact, the Democratic Party has evolved into an organization closely resembling the Republican Party, inspiring the name Demopublicans.
Though people unhappy with the Demopublicans have jumped ship to join the Libertarian and Green parties, neither party has developed much clout. This is doubtless largely due to the political aptitude of the American public.
21st century U.S. citizens are widely regarded as apathetic and ignorant. The word stupid is commonly applied to them. It is also widely believed that public schools - which have become increasingly corporatized - are now in the business of dumbing down students.
Many people hope that another great depression will snap people out of their apathy, resulting in renewed interest in politics or maybe even a revolution. However, even if people do suddenly begin to care, it will take time for them to educate themselves. At the present time, most people don't even know how to vote, let alone reform the government.
10. Blowback
The Great Depression originated in the U.S., but it plunged the entire world into a depression. Thus, one might expect a lot of anger directed at the U.S., though I haven't researched that.
At any rate, the world's attention was soon focused on another disaster: World War II. The United States emerged from tht conflict a hero and generally had the respect of other nations.
Today, it's a different story. The war in Vietnam inspired an international backlash, fueled by subsequent skirmishes and socio-political intrigue. The United States' image took a sharp plunge after George W. Bush was elected president.
During Bush's two terms in office, other nations began arming themselves in preparation for a military conflict with the U.S. Nations also began freeing themselves from dependence on the U.S. Virtually every nation in South America except Colombia (a U.S. puppet) has to some degree been swept up in a socialist revolution, largely led by Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez.
In the event of a second great depression, it would be foolish to depend on international good will as a crutch. In fact, some nations would likely seize the opportunity to strike further blows against the U.S., with an emphasis on dumping the U.S. dollar as the official currency.
Predictions
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Conspiracy Theories
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Solutions
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Survival Tips
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References
• GreatDepression2.com• Only a Roosevelt-Scale Counterrevolution Can Prevent Great Depression II (Robert Kuttner, AlterNet, September 18, 2008)
• Great Depression II: Obama or McCain? (Mike Garibaldi-Frick, The Huffington Post, September 17, 2008)
• Soros Compares Mishandling Of Current Crisis To Great Depression (Paul Joseph Watson, Prison Planet, September 17, 2008) [BLOG]
• Just like the Great Depression, Keynes can Fix This (BruceMcF, Daily Kos, September 17, 2008)
• New "Great Depression" Canned Goods Hit Store Shelves(capNEWS, September 18, 2008)
• Visions of another Great Depression spurred action (Kevin G. Hall, Pittsburg Tribune-Review, September 18, 2008)
• Great Depression (Wikipedia)
• Great Depression in the United States (Wikipedia)
• The Great Depression (Cary Nelson)
• Photographs of the Great Depression (About.com)
• The Great Depression (PBS)
• America from the Great Depression to World War II (Library of Congress)
• 4 Ways to Turn a Recession Into a Depression (James Pethokoukis, U.S. News & World Report, September 18, 2008)
• What Market Tumult Means For Average Stakeholders (Nancy Trejos, Washington Post, September 16, 2008) [Tips for dealing with AIG, Lehman Brothers, etc.]
• Washington Mutual (Wikipedia)
• A lesson rooted in the Great Depression (Carter Dougherty, International Herald Tribune, September 18, 2008)
• The Great Depression of 2006 (BLOG)
• Great Depression (PGM, Old Picture of the Day, September 16, 2008)
• America 's Financial Apocalypse Heralds Decade Long Depression (Mike Stathis, The Market Oracle, September 14, 2008)
• Survivalist News
• Gerald Celente: Dragflation & A Great 2008-2009 Depression? (munchkin, College Confidential, September 18, 2008)
• The Great Depression [WEBSITE]
• Ten Questions on the Economy (Mike Spinney, Spot-on, September 18, 2008)
• Fixing Wall Street Won't Fix Our Economy (Sally Kohn, AlterNet, September 19, 2008)
• The economic crisis (Brent Budowsky, January 22, 2008, The Hill)
• Quit Doling Out That Bad-Economy Line (Donald Luskin, Washington Post, September 14, 2008)
• Hagel: Crisis has potential to eclipse Depression (BostonHerald.com, September 19, 2008)
• Uncle Sam Wants To Own Your Bank, And Your House (Douglas A. McIntyre, 24/7 Wall ST, September 19, 2008)
• Paulson, Bernanke Expand U.S. Power to Rescue Markets (Rebecca Christie and John Brinsley, Bloomberg.com, September 19, 2008)
• Washington Mutual ousts CEO Kerry Killinger (Associated Press, September 8, 2008)
• Another Great Depression: Bank Run on Wamu (A Reformed Patriot, September 19, 2008)
• Five ways the financial crisis is already changing the world (Edmund Conway, Telegraph, September 19, 2008)
• It's Official: Depression Just Ahead... (Mikhail Surkan, Pomp & Surkanstance, September 19, 2008)
• Economy Ain't Fixable Folks (Garry Cooper, Thinkin' Out Loud, September 19, 2008)
• The Economic Spiral boogey man in the closet (Garry Cooper, Thinking' Out Loud, August 24, 2008)






Travis Lerol
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Feels a bit weak.
Besides, while industry may have recovered in WW2, the civilian economy was still sliding downward until the end of it. Wars cost money, and always have. It's irrelevant if the military is funded directly by the public, or indirectly through contractors, the cost in lives and dollars is just as real, and ultimately paid by the same people.
In the meantime, you asked for comparisons between the current "downturn," "other recent downturns" and the original Great Depression. Here's a partial list of reasons I think this "downturn" could be worse than the Great Depression:
1. The U.S. population is now more than 300 million, compared to less than half that at the beginning of the original Great Depression. That's a lot of people for the government to take care of. (Remember Hurricane Katrina?)
2. During the Great Depression, many people were farmers and were therefore semi-self sufficient. Today, most people are crowded into urban areas. In an economic crash, they would be dependent on the government.
3. The term "peak oil" didn't even exist in the 1930's. Today, a volatile oil industry alone could torpedo the economy.
4. Globalization alone could force the U.S. economy to downsize. I'm using the term in the broadest, most inclusive sense, referring to a world that's rapidly changing as economic and political powers change, with nations also becoming more interconnected via computers and the Internet.
5. Corruption - I still have some research to do here, as I'm not certain just how corrupt the government was during the Great Depression. But after eight years of George W. Bush, our government has been trashed. Of course, many people believe Obama will turn things around. Time will tell, but I believe Obama is just another corrupt Democrat. Many observers have commented on the shocking number of corrupt individuals in Obama's administration.
6. The world is far more complex, with many major issues that need to be dealt with that were virtually unknown during the First Great Depression, from terrorism to global warming.
7. Blowback - The U.S. played a leading role in World War II and won many friends and allies. In contrast, George W. Bush polarized the world. Though world leaders have cautiously embraced Obama, the fact that the U.S. is ultimately to blame for the global economic crisis can't earn us many friends.
* * * * *
So how is the current crisis different from "other recent downturns." I think the facts speak for themselves. This is not the .com bubble, Act 2. Many thousands of jobs are being lost in many industries. Economies are crashing in other nations, causing political unrest.
So what are the causes of Great Depression II? It's difficult to name a smoking gun, just as people still debate the causes of Great Depression I. But I can list many things that either qualify as a partial cause or will help exacerbate the crisis...
1. Deregulation
2. Privatization
3. Backpedaling on legislation inspired by Great Depression I
4. Growing corporate corruption
5. Peak oil
6. Corporate education reform (the de facto privatization of our public schools)
7. Globalization
8. World Trade Organization
9. Job outsourcing
10. Phony tax cuts
11. Corporate welfare
12. Bank bailouts
13. Housing crisis
That's just a partial list. To be perfectly honest, I can't understand why our economy didn't crash and burn years ago.
Many people have long maintained that the U.S. economy is a house of cards propped up by other nations. After all, if we crash, the global economy crashes.
But I'll have more to say about all these things when I finally get this knol finished.
Thanks for your comments.
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Aaron Skomra
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"turmoil"
Tony
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Still Potential for Accurate Information